Maybe there’s a bullet stuck in the person’s medulla oblongata, not dead but can’t feel a damn thing. Tsk, that is so James Bond. Haha.

In any case, I tell you. Better hoard bananas. The background radiation will mutate us back into monkeys! :p

Alex added these pithy words on May 09 07 at 4:43 pm

That student’s logic is almost comical. Mmmph.

Benj, I don’t necessarily think this illogical and unintentionally funny blog post is representative of poor teaching methods in Philippine science schools, nor do I think it is an example of misdirected faith. It certainly isn’t enough to justify implying the kid is mentally retarded. (More posts along a similar vein, perhaps? LOL)

IMHO, it just sounds like a haughty high school kid is being extremely ‘pilosopo.’ He could stand to be taken down a notch or two, certainly, especially for this post that shows extremely flawed logic. A lot of us, myself included, would cringe at stuff we wrote when we were his age.

ganns added these pithy words on May 09 07 at 5:20 pm

I am the author of the quoted on the post. I’ll just explain my side…

Maybe you’re just taking that too literally. I mean, what I’m trying to perceive is that science and faith has a link even though they have conflicts. Science is “to see is to believe”, so accdng. to science, there is no God because nobody hasn’t seen God yet. While faith is faith. See, accdng. to science, we evolved from monkeys but no one hasn’t observed the evolution yet but some people believe that we really did evovlved from mokeys, they just have to take it on faith for them to believe in it. Have you ever seen your brain? I don’t think so. So according to science, you have no brain. But it’s not it. You believe that you have a brain even though you haven’t seen it yet, so you have to take it on faith. Did you see the link between science and faith? I am not against the two. I’m just trying to explain that even though these two are having conflicts when it comes to believing, they are linked and they can’t live without each other? Do you get it? Maybe I didn’t elaborated it enough on my blog. Sorry for that.

Jeimar added these pithy words on May 09 07 at 5:57 pm

Okay, I can’t do anything if can’t still get it. We have different opinions and I respect yours. I don’t want an argument. CHEERS to you too!

Jeimar added these pithy words on May 09 07 at 6:14 pm

Tsk. Ei, Benj, do you have any plans in taking up law instead? You’d make a good prosecutor. Harhar. :p

Alex added these pithy words on May 09 07 at 7:08 pm

Nah, I was happy with my debate career. Lol.

benj added these pithy words on May 09 07 at 7:11 pm

Oh no Alex. Should I bring this post down as well?

benj added these pithy words on May 09 07 at 7:30 pm

in my opinion, the kid was partly right.

So therefore, according to the empirical, testable, stable, and demonstrable Science, there is no God.

apropos, present day science is not to be used to test something which can or never be proved.Science is meant to test the observable. where do we place the category of God?

even Charles Darwin who coined that process. So since no one has ever observed the process of evolution and cannot even prove that it did happened, therefore, science teachers are not teaching their students science but an opinion.

he is right that evolution is simply a theory and had never yet been a law. Of course, it is still science since science is all about possibilities and opinions.

Have you ever seen, touched, tasted, or smelled your own brain? I think no one has ever did that and therefore, according to science, you have no brain.

Philosophy. A Philosopher might think you have no brain. It was simply invented by the human mind. This is not science.

the post isn’t original. lets not be too harsh on the teen. let us not blame mainstream education. this is the Philippines. There is much to be improved.

gilbert added these pithy words on May 09 07 at 8:48 pm

Treat, huh? Too bad then, I’d be at the beach this weekend. hehe. :p

leni added these pithy words on May 09 07 at 9:24 pm

Well isn’t it sad as well that you’re sweeping genaralization? Just because of one post of a kid, you’re taking it against the school’s curriculum already?

Geo added these pithy words on May 09 07 at 10:23 pm

i dunno about the other science high schools, but MaSci has totally deteriorated…

http://kaide.blogspot.com/2006/06/mascis-demise.html

cyberpunk added these pithy words on May 09 07 at 11:07 pm

Noted. Now stop polluting my blog in hopes of having my readers hop into your blog. Thanks.

Kaide: That’s real unfortunate. I used to live right across Masci.

benj added these pithy words on May 09 07 at 11:15 pm

I was gonna comment that the blogger might be kidding, or was being sarcastic, or was simply trying to get attention (he is in high school after all.) Then he commented. So… So much for that.

Alvin added these pithy words on May 10 07 at 4:35 am

Hi Benj,

I understand the points you raised here. I even agree with some. However, I hope you understand me, too, when I object to your calling Geo a retard and an idiot. That was unnecessary.

Geo is one of my closest friends and is far from from an ‘idiot’ — grammatical mistakes and comprehension boo-boos (if that’s what it is) don’t make a person an instant idiot. It just pains me to see a person ridiculed when his achievements probably overshadow those of ours: a BPI Science Scholar, student leader, awarded the most well-rounded UPD College of Engineering student of our batch, top dog of UPD’s fencing varsity team, just to name a few. And no, he didn’t ask me to pitch in a comment for him — I just felt that this is a responsibility of mine.

Also, the concept of him using these comments to gain visitors to his blog is, sorry to say, ridiculous — this is a person who doesn’t even care for the concept of ‘linkbait’ and ’site hits’.

That said, thanks for the high-five at Blog-Tutorials. Looking forward to working with you and seeing your posts. You might not see me posting for the next week, though, as I’ll be in the province (death in the family). Good luck!

Corsarius added these pithy words on May 10 07 at 5:15 am

Misuse of arguments. Syllogistically absurd.

Perhaps he/she has just distorted text, as if he’s cracking an unlaughable joke. You know, we lvoe copy-pasting. Then a little editing. Then submit. Kaching! Uno.

Neil added these pithy words on May 10 07 at 1:38 pm

Note to self: People with bad logic easily gain sympathy and support from other people… pretty much the same way kids in the Special Olympics do.

leni: Yes, it’s a treat! 6 PM daw yung debate. Umahon ka sa tubig at maghanap ng TV sa oras na yun para makita mo ako! hehehe

Neil: Anong subject naman nakuha yang uno na to? Bad Grammar and Logic 100?

Alvin: I never intended to put the spotlight on him. That’s why I never said his name - not even his school.

benj added these pithy words on May 10 07 at 2:40 pm

Thank you Ia for grandstanding on my blog.

That just proves that

People with bad logic easily gain sympathy and support from other people… pretty much the same way kids in the Special Olympics do.

Again, read your friend’s reply. It deserved a strong rebuke given the flaws it had. The arguments that you’re pushing aren’t even part of the big picture. You’re harping on my choice of title and my choice of words as opposed to the real substance of the post. I think that’s nitpicking. But I don’t blame you, you’re his friend and you obviously bend logic and reason just to defend him.

I wasn’t even thinking about SEO at all - and yes I know about “no follow”. So who’s making assumptions now? Did you even base that on anything? Such hypocrisy! If somebody is to contest every post that I make with horrid grammar and bad logic, I have the right to edit the posts.

benj added these pithy words on May 10 07 at 6:23 pm

The kid is simply making an analogy and if you got brains, at all, you will accept that he is just trying to make a point, silly as it may be. And given the chance it’s not a bad argument as a whole. Let me put it this way….

Given a chance, for example, that you haven’t actually hacked your skull apart with a chainsaw, would you even though that you have a brain as arrogant as it is now or as small as a pair of peanuts? Well, they are there—of course—but you neither see, touch, taste nor smell it (if I may barrow the kid’s silly words) on your own, so how come you think you have a right and left hemisphere for a brain, huh?

There you go, pretty stupid question, illogical even, right?

But not if you’re the only person in this planet or maybe even a donkey! Technically speaking, the only reason you thought you are clever enough to think otherwise was because you were assuming things of others’ discoveries, experiences and stories you learned from the past and present, and in the end it’s the science of the human intellect that made sense. Technically, again you haven’t done any experimenting yourself to even come up with the conclusion that you have indeed endowed with intelligence inside of that skull of yours. So are you are just a victim of social interaction with a functioning brain, but couldn’t make up your own understanding ‘alone’–independent of others? Heck, the world probably wouldn’t even have known that it has a heart if not for Juliet telling her Romeo that her “heart bleeds” upon his dying.

The argument of the kid was simply telling us that not everything you are not seeing are not there at all, like the wind and gravity. And not all things that science can’t explain are untrue. If you did you probably would know how your own pretty brain really looks like. Of course not, but thanks to medicine, a science, you got yourself a pair of brains after all.

And by the way, if only God is 3-dimensional then science would have a way of knowing him. But that defeats the purpose of the concept of god, doesn’t it? Because if science would have a way with god then humans can be better than their gods, wouldn’t they? To probe god with science is futile to begin with if you would have to debate its concept as a higher being. It’s either you believe in god or you don’t (that makes you an atheist and it is fine by me). But science is a lame excuse for not believing in god.., even Einstein knows where empirical science begins to exit and philosophy starts.

I know for a fact that all religions are bullshit and atheist arguments are recycled crap. That kid is actually in the right path for using his common sense to find God.

remedy added these pithy words on May 11 07 at 2:15 pm

The argument of the kid was simply telling us that not everything you are not seeing are not there at all, like the wind and gravity. And not all things that science can’t explain are untrue. If you did you probably would know how your own pretty brain really looks like. Of course not, but thanks to medicine, a science, you got yourself a pair of brains after all.

And by the way, if only God is 3-dimensional then science would have a way of knowing him. But that defeats the purpose of the concept of god, doesn’t it? Because if science would have a way with god then humans can be better than their gods, wouldn’t they? To probe god with science is futile to begin with if you would have to debate its concept as a higher being. It’s either you believe in god or you don’t (that makes you an atheist and it is fine by me). But science is a lame excuse for not believing in god.., even Einstein knows where empirical science begins to exit and philosophy starts.

I know for a fact that all religions are bullshit and atheist arguments are recycled crap. That kid is actually in the right path for using his common sense to find God.

remedy added these pithy words on May 11 07 at 2:25 pm

The kid obviously just took that article elsewhere.

Based on that article, the professor was indicating that there was no GOD based on the professor’s idea that GOD has not been perceived by the student and the professor with the use of those senses.

So the argument was put forth in the article that based on those same senses; the professor can’t prove that he had a brain.

Remedy though does have a good issue on experimentation.

BTW, regarding what you stated as “People with bad logic easily gain sympathy and support from other people… pretty much the same way kids in the Special Olympics do.”

What’s bad about the kids in the Special Olympics?

justice league added these pithy words on May 11 07 at 10:04 pm

Greetings Benj,

But I believe the points where in the article.

I think the kid made a mistake in his comment here when he stated that “Science is “to see is to believe”,” and you promptly took him down for that. The kid should have stayed within the parameters of the article.

I believe the points were based on the senses and that was also the basis used in the end.

justice league added these pithy words on May 11 07 at 10:47 pm

Um, in my school, Darwin’s Theory is taught as a Theory, as science puts it. I wonder who taught the kid that it’s a Law because sadly, he’s being misled.

I wonder which is worse - that someone taught the kid that the Darwin theory is a law, or that I was taught in school that the christian religion and its stories are real.

By the way, the DNA has been extracted from the Neanderthal man and his genes were really closer than ours to monkeys. It’s actually easier to swallow than “a god created you in a day”! Bwahahaha!

So, my opinion about the topic given, I would like to say that 14 year-olds reserve the right to say crazy things. Just like the way you wouldn’t want your journal or your artbook of your early teens be exposed to public. Your ideas are just not refined, crazy sometimes.

I have read one of Benj’s essays when he was about this age, and really, I found the essay to be ahead of the author’s years. But I think that calling people retarded is not the right way of showing ideas to others. It’s backwards. In my opinion, intelligence will go to waste if you don’t have heart.

Peace
As a side note, I know three people who have commented on this blog, one showed me the link. The internet really makes the world smaller.

mai added these pithy words on May 13 07 at 7:56 am

Scientifical?
Evidences?
Those aren’t even words.
Geo: I’ll just have to accept that you are unable to imagine what Atheism is like despite the countless attempts to explain it. Some christians could handle considering Atheism as a philosophy. I’m assuming the credentials that Corsarius is true so I’m sure this short explanation should (and would) do.

A belief in a god requires faith. If one has no ability to have faith then it will be impossible to believe in something abstract. Your “argument” is very similar to Pascal’s Wager - something that I think is logically and even theologically-flawed.

Is your god that shallow? Is your god one that tokenistically rewards those who has faith and casts to peril those who don’t? If that’s how you perceive your god to be, one who just arbitrarily assigns fates based on faith alone? Assuming that that’s true, the possibility of non-faith was also conceived through his creation of infinite possibilities! Is that fair? No.

Given the idea that you raised your god is either of two things:
1. a tokenistic deity who plays The Sims with real people
2. a sadistic and unjust god who waits on who picks the option with a trap door.

That is one depressing belief.

benj added these pithy words on May 13 07 at 5:50 pm

Geo: What ugly words then.

you have to take my word for it. You don’t get it. You were an agnostic not because you were an atheist - it had more to do with the “jealous” christian inside of you who wanted more from his god. It’s like, you were a christian all along but you were just in denial.

You are not getting the faith and absence of faith argument and that’s why this discussion is not progressing. Everything that you say is deeply-rooted in faith and for somebody who has no faith, it’s not even relevant. You had faith, because you chose to give credit to your god for all the improvements that happened in your life. If you think that that sort of argumentation will fly against an atheist, you are severely mistaken.
If you have nothing better to do than to evangelize and preach your life story in this blog, please do me a favor and refrain from posting. You’re always welcome if you’re going to post something that would enrich the discussion in the logical plane. Thank you.

benj added these pithy words on May 13 07 at 6:42 pm

I do not appreciate your show of defiance at all. I don’t go into your blog spewing atheist rhetoric left and right so please, since I’ve already asked for the stoppage of your christian rhetoric, kindly comply.

benj added these pithy words on May 13 07 at 7:08 pm

Sorry to double post, but again in reply to Geo:

My story, for Geo: I was a christian back in grade school and life was terrible. I depended heavily on prayers to soothe problems, and if the answers seemingly coming from this so-called god did not solve the problem, you are taught to accept it. Now I’m no longer bound by this thinking, I am able to focus more on what is at hand and find realistic solutions to problems.

Point is, there are atheists who have learned how it is to be christian/theists and found it wrong in some aspect. If a person knows a habit or thinking is wrong, why should you convince them to go back doing it?

Two cents.

mai added these pithy words on May 13 07 at 11:43 pm

Mai: Yes, I too was offended and I’ll explain to you on a separate note why I forgave him (since I promised I wouldn’t talk faith stuff here anymore).

I’d like to hear from you more and would like to help if you can give me a chance. But let’s not do it here. I’m just a sametime away.

Benj: There you go saying I don’t get it again. Let me borrow someone’s words: “Actually, for me benefit, I don’t think you respect anyone other than yourself”

Anyway, final say on this post: I also disagree with the kid’s logic, but I also disagree that he is a retard (as this is what Benj was favoring. Option b or 3 right?)

Jeimar: Although I disagree on some of your points, I still think you should learn from it. That’s why it is good that you published it. Gives you more readers to give feedback. With feedback, you’ll know your opportunity areas. And although we can’t be perfect, we can at least minimize our weak points, methinks. Net, you’re not a retard and your school is still great.

Geo added these pithy words on May 14 07 at 12:29 am

Yes I quoted a grammatically incorrect statement. It does sound cute and you still can understand what it’s trying to say. It doesn’t have to perfect all the time you know.

Geo added these pithy words on May 14 07 at 12:53 am

I was a freshman during the Roco candidacy - and that was only 3 years ago!
Yes, because that was tested through the scientific method and it required a lot more than just mere faith to confirm it. If you consider trusting the experts who did the experiments before as “faith”, I think that brand of faith is much better than the conventional faith correlated with the belief in a god or what not. At least that level of “faith” in the scientific method offers a semblance of substantiation.

Have a nice day!

benj added these pithy words on May 14 07 at 1:02 am

Ummm, no. Med school takes longer than three years! As they say in the shoe commercial, IT TAKES FIVE! Hehe. Corny

Yes, substantiation can be in that form provided that the study design was sound. If you’re going to call it faith, then it would be unfair to automatically consider it as something congruent to the author’s concept of what faith is. There is reason and logic behind the “faith” that scientists put on other people’s well-put-together studies, but in the other types of faith, there is hardly any.

Let’s put it this way. Faith in a scientific law or theorem is earned through rigorous testing and cross-testing with other institutions. The other version of faith is mandated and is hardly questioned despite the fact that it can hardly be proven. The “proofs” it offers are part and parcel of the “faith” itself and cannot be taken outside the context of a believer. I hope I’m making myself clear.

benj added these pithy words on May 14 07 at 1:32 am

Roco ran during the 2004 Presidential elections. Roco didn’t run in the 2001 elections because he was tapped by Gloria as a a Department of Education Secretary.

benj added these pithy words on May 14 07 at 2:28 am

Hi Benj,

I actually know Geo in person, that’s why I talk to him

Hi Geo,

You could help me by finding a Buddhist monk to teach me their beliefs (mostly philosophical stuff and it’s really great!). It’s hard to learn it here in the Philippines, but I’m trying
Why Buddhism? Because they don’t convert people. Meaning, they don’t impose their beliefs on others. You won’t see them knocking on your doorsteps. And yet, the religion is being sought out by people who want to get away from the pretenses of other organized religions.

I feel depressed that we had a subject called “Religion” in high school and grade school, but it only taught the christian one. If not, I might have changed religions or something way before See, we have all been conditioned to think that christianity is the only real belief…

…but is that true?

mai added these pithy words on May 14 07 at 9:48 am

Mai,

What Grade school and High School did you attend?

justice league added these pithy words on May 14 07 at 4:29 pm

Mai,

Did they say that you got a low grade in conduct because of that?

The private Education business just like the private Hospital business is still a business and that requires monetary consideration.

But to “force” students to take up a subject of religion other than their own would not be right. But you were still a Christian back then weren’t you?

And of course seeking release doesn’t make you a bad person but how are you bound by organized religion anyway?

justice league added these pithy words on May 14 07 at 7:33 pm

I guess that’s enough about personal stuff, which is crazy cause we’re practically spamming this blog.

Here’s something that I hold dear which is taught to Christians too - “Don’t do unto others…” Likewise, please don’t call people evil as much as you don’t want to be called fanatics. It’s the same banana.

mai added these pithy words on May 14 07 at 9:05 pm

Mai,

I think your school officials made a lot of mistakes in judgement.

But for the Scholarship issue; just in case your school does offer some sort of scholarship for elementary and High school level, I would guess that there is a “Catch 22″ problem.

When I took my elementary classes, I remember there were more of us in 1 year level than the freshmen of our High school. When I reached High School, there were practically no new faces though some old faces were gone.

Practically only those who took elementary in our school were accepted in our High School and not even all at that.

With a Catch 22 problem, only those already from the school are going to be eligible for scholarship. The problem is that the less fortunate are not going to be able to fund themselves to get in the “system” in the first place so practically no scholarship are going to be given to the less fortunate because there are no less unfortunate students in the school to begin with.

But that is if your school granted scholarships in the first place.

If none are given, then chalk that up to another mistake in judgement.

Anyway, are you sure Buddhism won’t bind you to certain tenets itself?

Benj,

Your post #70 is well and good, though I hope you consider how much tolerance you yourself have shown specially with the kid.

justice league added these pithy words on May 14 07 at 11:56 pm

Justice league

It wasn’t even about him being christian and me being atheist.
I have low tolerance when it comes to bad logic. Im sorry.

benj added these pithy words on May 15 07 at 12:06 am

Justice league, message #70 was meant for the person who keeps coming back just keep preaching about his faith. I can’t stand his pretentious claims that he understands what atheism is.

benj added these pithy words on May 15 07 at 12:48 am

Well justice league,

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/5minbud.htm

“Buddhist teachings can be understood and tested by anyone. Buddhism teaches that the solutions to our problems are within ourselves not outside. The Buddha asked all his followers not to take his word as true, but rather to test the teachings for themselves. ln this way, each person decides for themselves and takes responsibility for their own actions and understanding. This makes Buddhism less of a fixed package of beliefs which is to be accepted in its entirety, and more of a teaching which each person learns and uses in their own way.”

mai added these pithy words on May 15 07 at 8:33 am

The student’s simplistic statement is simply a response to the equally simplistic argument that there is no God because He can’t be seen.

Danzigstorer added these pithy words on May 16 07 at 5:38 am

Mai: Pardon me, my friend is a Buddhist but not a Buddhist monk. And she is not a resident of China or Japan. But just let me know if you want to talk to her.

Also, I completely understand what went through during your Christian life back then. But Christianity is not about rituals, it is about your relationship with Him. I also don’t do the sign of the cross before praying, I just bow down and talk to Him just like what you did before. If you read the Bible, God hates hypocrites teaching the word of God but not practicing it. I will pray for your school back then that they’ll stop what they are doing.

Geo added these pithy words on May 16 07 at 2:31 pm

Mai,

OK then.

However for your question; I would have to say that judging other people has little to do with being a Christian.

And besides, you might not have realized it but the question seems loaded by the way your next statement attempts to modify it.

For one, you admitted to be agnostic but you certainly don’t appear to be a harsh talker. So one doesn’t follow the other.

justice league added these pithy words on May 16 07 at 9:38 pm

The last phrase was a joke thrown in for the blog owner, hence the I don’t know why you took that one seriously! Besides, it was phrased as a question, I guess you answered “no”.

Okay, I won’t joke around anymore.

So is atheism and those who practice it already acceptable to Christians? Is this kind of tolerance part of their teachings? Or is it, “those who don’t believe will be punished/are evil”? I know the latter to be true.

Judging has a lot to do with all beliefs. It’s what you judge plus how you react that matters, at least to me (:

mai added these pithy words on May 17 07 at 6:05 pm

My, that was a good laugh. xD But it still didn’t cure my head from migraine. I think that seeing your brain thing is a joke. Well, I hope so. We used to tell that joke to a lot of people back in high school.

That boy reminds me of my sophomore year in high school. xD

Najo added these pithy words on May 19 07 at 1:25 am

I guess if he said it requires faith to believe he’s got a brain, then you have to take his word for it. Nothing here, moving on.

… in other news… looks like rain today.

cheers!
Tony

Tony Basa added these pithy words on Jun 11 07 at 10:53 pm

“Have you ever seen, touched, tasted, or smelled your own brain? I think no one has ever did that and therefore, according to science, you have no brain.”

Have you ever seen, touched, tasted, or smelled God? Therefor it does not mean that there is no God.

meeia added these pithy words on Jun 17 07 at 11:48 pm

duh, science does not claim “people evolved from monkeys”. it’s supposed to be we ’shared a common ancestor’

this student should learn more about genetics and evolution before twisting it…

nash added these pithy words on Jul 16 07 at 3:45 pm

I came from a science highschool (or should I say, *the* science high school) and I assure you that such things are not included nor inculcated there — at least not in my school.

The material here is lifted from a widely spread Christian forwarded email.

Despite the fact that I am theist, however, I am not really amused by that particular argument.

Jon Limjap added these pithy words on Aug 14 07 at 5:50 pm

Ah, the Philippine science curriculum.

It’s not much different from the english curriculum - absolutely shoddy.

Seriously, this country is in a precarious position if students from a science high school are taught such rubbish.

Martin added these pithy words on Aug 30 07 at 11:47 pm

Howdy!

Ah the brain– the seat of arrogance or wisdom (or both).

I find 2 common things with atheists– they are both arrogant & angry.

The first one is more obvious with you, Benj. Though, I’m not suggesting that being arrogant is wrong or evil. It’s just an observable (empirical) fact.
PAx

Dave Q added these pithy words on Nov 05 07 at 5:22 pm

^ That was not even the point. Hahahaha. Thanks for further proving my premise.

You can’t even identify the satire behind the post. Did I even say that ALL science high schools are like that? Jeez. Good luck on continuing your “high school fantasies”. That’s definitely a big achievement.

benj added these pithy words on Jan 13 08 at 11:15 am

It’s called comment moderation, you n00b. Thanks for further proving my point. Haha. You’re so smart! Assumptions galore.

benj added these pithy words on Jan 13 08 at 11:37 am

Congrats, you’ll get hits thanks to this. Your plan worked!

Man you’re slow. Not a big surprise though.

Carry on.

benj added these pithy words on Jan 13 08 at 11:43 am