Atheista | Verbatim: Heaven, Hell and Science High School X…

Is there a separation of Church and State in the Philippines? Not when students in a Science High School are required to pray before the National Anthem. Good comments at Atheista.net….

astigg.com added these pithy words on Sep 24 07 at 10:19 pm

[…] Filipinos have their own issues with separating Church and State, as Brad Fults pointed out, they are miles ahead in some other […]

An Orange Amoeba » Blog Archive » Silly People added these pithy words on Oct 03 07 at 2:52 am

I hope whoever wrote that has taken this up with his/her high school’s administration. I went to a Catholic college and I was very vocal about my being an atheist. Out of respect, my professors never made me participate in class prayers. Out of respect for my theist schoolmates, I’d stand up during prayers. And the noontime Angelus. LOL.

@Helga That’s good for you. Being an atheist, I was pretty much considered the “bad girl” in my Protestant high school.

I used to ask questions about the basis of their religion, for example: How can you be so sure that the Bible was written through the “chosen men” by the Lord? It could have been written by some guy on drugs with an onset of psychosis. My Values Education teacher turned red, told me to shut up, and pretty much got angry in the process of trying to answer my question. The rest of the classroom hushed up and turned their angry eyes at me for questioning their faith. I wasn’t trying to go against their religion. I was merely asking a question regarding their religion. Argh.

I’m glad UP won’t subject me to any kind of worshiping, kneeling and hand-clasping anytime soon. Although a lot of my teachers ask us to pray before class…. at least I won’t be forced to memorize passages from a thick book I rarely open.

Skye added these pithy words on Sep 20 07 at 11:01 pm

Yes. Science High School X is still non-sectarian. But by the way things are going, it does seem like a catholic school. Some teachers assume that because more than 80% of the students are Catholic, they might as well treat the lot as Catholic.

Even the subjects Values Education, whose course description can be inferred from the subject name, is approached from a Catholic/Christian perspective.

As the someone on the balance of atheist/nominal protestant, I still find status quo in Science High School X as quite suffocating, especially when students like me who don’t exactly believe in such absolutes have to limit, if not negate what we believe in class just to pass certain subjects.

Paula added these pithy words on Sep 20 07 at 11:38 pm

I’m sleepy right now but suffice it to saw for now that the writer, and a lot of other people, seems to have a little understanding of the Constitution with regards to the “Separation of the Church and the State”. What you just described is not violative of your right to believe in the inexistence of God and not violative of any prohibitions in the Constitution in regards to secular and non-secular activities.

Political Science Student added these pithy words on Sep 21 07 at 4:26 am

Oh c’mon, Science Highschool X? PHILIPPINE SCIENCE HIGH SCHOOL. PSHS. Mataas na Paaralan ng Pilipinas sa Agham.

Came from there, am Catholic, but I’ve always wondered how my non-Catholic classmates feel about “ecunemical” masses and prayers and sh*t. I had classmates who were Muslim, Protestant, Born Again, and Ba Hai. I don’t like how they handle the whole place vis-a-vis religion at all.

Jon Limjap added these pithy words on Sep 21 07 at 1:49 pm

Way to go Jon! Hehehe!

I went to a Catholic school run by nuns so I know how it feels to be forced to attend masses (because your class attendance will depend on it). And I understand Skye because in a Catholic school, nobody questions the religion. YOu’ll be told to just shut up and swallow everything whole. But I go through it because I know I enrolled in a Catholic school. It’s different with a government high school though. They’re either ignorant or arrogant to be considering everybody to be Catholic since majority of Filipinos are Catholic, which is rather reminiscent of a previous controversial blogosphere topic. Hehe. But, oh no, I’m not going to open healed wounds. Hehe.

Prudence added these pithy words on Sep 21 07 at 4:40 pm

@Skye: (sidenote) For my Comm II class, I gave an informative speech on Atheism. The professor was really cool about it.

Helga added these pithy words on Sep 21 07 at 8:38 pm

cabinet meetings are started with prayers so i’m not surprised that high schools follow suit. i’m just irritated by when theists think that they have a monopoly on morality. they always equate morality with belief in god (or gods). and that is wrong in so many levels.

the young writer of this piece should try to have his article published in major newspaper.

slim whale added these pithy words on Sep 22 07 at 2:35 am

It’s actually worse than that, Benj. Have you heard of Science High School X’s involvement with a certain Catholic sect? It’s really horrible. While they have been more low-key lately, their influence lingers. And lately, one secular event even began with a long prayer rally-like celebration that got the secularists in an uproar. As an institution, they are aware about being non-sectarian. However, some interest groups hold powerful lobbies. But because of that “prayer rally”, I believe the admin will be hearing about this soon.

myidentityinmyemail added these pithy words on Sep 22 07 at 11:21 am

Pardon, I seem to be misunderstood. The author of the article has been a friend of mine for four years. What I meant was that if anyone knows any action, legal or otherwise, that can be taken to address the issues stated in the article, I am asking for support as I myself wish to take action against this.

And yes, another issue would be the involvement of a Catholic sect, heavily depicted in a recent popular novel to be an overtly fanatical group. Many teachers in the school belong to the sect, allowing for them to have an influence in school matters. It has also been an observation by more liberal teachers that selection for employment in new teachers seems to be biased towards religious individuals, more so to members of the said sect.

If there might be any lawyers, individuals involved in the government, or just anyone concerned who could help, email me at neo(anti-spam, remove this)fanim@yahoo.com.

This article was supposed to be published as an editorial to the school paper last year, but was held back by the author from fear of repercussions from many of the fundamentalists who have power in the school.

Noir added these pithy words on Sep 22 07 at 11:59 am

Glorious. May ginawa na ba tungkol dito, especially the every-morning-prayer?

This has to be heard. People have to know this. I agree with slim whale: The media needs to spread this out.

Gab added these pithy words on Sep 22 07 at 12:32 pm

Why all the overprotection of Philippine Science High School and Opus Dei?

Say it as it is. It’s all “in the search of the untarnished truth right?” That phrase is not our de facto motto nor the last line in the alma matter hymn for no reason. Anonimity and fear tarnishes truth.

Philippine Science High School has about 240 students per batch. If the administration goes on a witch hunt against atheists because of the outrage expressed in the letter above, or otherwise singles out and/or threatens the aforementioned atheist, then it will and can be a case taken against PSHS and Opus Dei.

NOBODY, not even PSHS, your entry into which was earned by means of two rigorous entrance exams that you excelled in from more than 15,000 hopefuls a year, can tell you that you have to abide by a certain religion. Only those two tests matter in your entry — your religion or lack thereof should have NO bearing on your continued stay in the school howsoever.

Your education is being payed for by taxpayers — atheists, Christians and non-Christians alike, regardless of race.

And to whatever organization that is trying to exert undue religious influence my alma mater or proselytizing their religion there — may your god damn you for subverting the free will that your god gave every human being.

Jon Limjap added these pithy words on Sep 22 07 at 12:39 pm

Science High School X sounded so familiar. Hehe. Probably, true. Although I’m a Catholic, I don’t agree in forcing non-Christian to pray. Well, I didn’t realize that before (probably due to ignorance).

Patrick added these pithy words on Sep 22 07 at 11:30 pm

This is not just a matter of Catholics against non-Catholic Christians, this is a matter of the school or related personnel imposing religion upon the students. Now this may not be a matter to those who follow the faith, but for those who do not, or those who may just observe the law and righteousness, this is already a matter. This government science high school must be a prime example of what should be progressive thought, and the imposition of religion only creates subjectivity in what is supposed to be an institution for the most objective of minds.

Now, the right thing to do is not to suppress the expression of religion, but to suppress the imposition of religion. Events such as the PUBLIC morning prayer held at the flag ceremony and having certain teachers impose prayers upon students before and after classes should not be.

In addition to what has been stated above, the first two years in the school have a subject named Values Education, each worth a unit in an individual’s grade. Where shall I begin on this? I think that by saying that teaching intolerance of homosexuality, abortion and contraception is enough to paint a picture of what might be taught in the subject.

Open your eyes. If this school is supposed to be above of all others, than what does this reflect on our country’s society and culture in general?

Shame.

Noir added these pithy words on Sep 23 07 at 2:54 pm

i came from science hs, and i don’t see or hear non-Catholic classmates complaining or sticking their heads out about that matter. maybe that’s the problem, the administration may think that it is absolutely fine to pray during flag ceremonies since no one is resisting to cooperate. or probably i dont observe that much.

sirena added these pithy words on Sep 23 07 at 11:39 pm

justice league: I think that was a slip on Noir’s part. Easy pickings. haha

benj added these pithy words on Sep 25 07 at 1:22 am

I agree that Christians or Catholics want to save souls, etc BUT I don’t agree that they should force people to do it. I feel sorry for those who force people to pray.. coz even if people pray, but Jesus is not in their hearts, it’s useless. They are just hypocrites.

I do understand your sentiments about praying during Flag Ceremony and I also agree that students should have the right to say NO. Again, this praying during flag ceremonies thing is already a tradition. SO if you don’t want to pray, just stand and wait for it to finish. At least respect the 94% of the students who are Christians/Catholics. I just don’t get the fuss over this.

Geo added these pithy words on Sep 25 07 at 12:32 pm

How about… respecting the Constitution and not using government time and resources for mandatory praying at all? Just don’t have any prayers at assemblytime, period. I just don’t get the fuss over this!

micketymoc added these pithy words on Sep 25 07 at 1:12 pm

Benj,

Very well,

But above the section in the Charter that Joyfulchicken stated is actually another article that reads:

(2) They shall inculcate patriotism and nationalism, foster love of humanity, respect for human rights, appreciation of the role of national heroes in the historical development of the country, teach the rights and duties of citizenship, strengthen ethical and “spiritual values”, develop moral character and personal discipline, encourage critical and creative thinking, broaden scientific and technological knowledge, and promote vocational efficiency. (emphasis mine).

justice league added these pithy words on Sep 26 07 at 12:22 am

justice league,

There’s a big difference between religiosity and spirituality, but that’s a different topic altogether.

Jon Limjap added these pithy words on Sep 26 07 at 5:28 am

IMO, Catholic (private) schools have all the right to impose whatever “rules” they want implemented in their campuses. But for government (or public) schools, it’s another story. and yea, separation of church and state should apply. We’re not in the Spanish era anymore so no organized religion should dictate us what to do especially in schools.

anyway, it’s funny though, i’ve been to three Catholic schools in my entire student lifetime and i’ve never experienced being “forced” into attending their religious rites. it’s voluntary, believe me. you just have to inform your teachers to give you other “things” to do in replacement of your attendance to school retreats, first friday masses, and first communions.. etc. only thing is, they REQUIRE religion (theology) subjects. but then again, a student who enrolled in such institutions must anticipate it already and must not give so much fuss about it. pass the subject, but don’t learn from it if your belief tells you otherwise.

again, i am talking about CATHOLIC SCHOOLS and it’s a different story with “Science High School X”

aajao added these pithy words on Sep 26 07 at 2:20 pm

I’ve been trying to look for other students who might share the same viewpoint as myself, or those who are at least open to the viewpoints of others, to establish a group of people to push the agenda of religious tolerance. Sadly, at the mention of atheist or agnostic, I am immediately met with responses of “hoy masama yan” or “satanista”. And those were comments coming from STUDENTS. I also tried using the term liberal theist, but that left the most of them scratching their heads.
Still looking for more “allies”…

Noir added these pithy words on Sep 26 07 at 9:06 pm

before I actually comment, commercial muna:
Kuya Benj (if you’ll allow me to call you so just for politeness :P), ang galing mo pala kumanta. I was there when you auditioned and the Filipino song that you sang was my favorite. “Muli”, right?
***
At oo, Pisay-Diliman ang tinutukoy dyan. Yung ID thing pa lang sa flag cem, give away clue na eh.

Tsaka kahit naman po ilagay niyo yung pangalan ng school, pwede ba, naunahan na yung nagsulat nito ng newsbreak magazine dahil naglabas na sila ng ganyang article na, btw, wala masyadong basis.
***

Anyway, before anything else, I come from the Philippine Science High School, an active member of the PSHS-Student Catholic Association (SCA), and I belong to the batch that just graduated this year and was, well, labeled as the most God-fearing of all batches.

Yup. God-fearing people exist even in a non-sectarian school. Seriously. I mean, that should be obvious since this is still the Philippines right? But we did have atheists with us in our batch. At accepted sila. Buong-buo. Walang pangmamaliit.

Now this is my opinion. The school does not break any “laws” or whatever because EVERYTHING still remains optional. The problem with the atheists in Pisay is they are in a constant pursuit to obliterate everything that has got to do with religion or God in our school. Gusto nila kasi, wag mag-pray, wag magtatag ng mga religious orgs, at kung anu-ano pa.

Ang lagi na lang nilang hindi napapansin, the ADMINISTRATION refrains from imposing anything at all. Period.

Meaning, they can opt not to pray during the flag ceremonies. Pwede naman eh. Habang nagdadasal yung ibang estudyante, e di tumunganga ka lang. Tutal, kung atheist nga siyang talaga, magiging napakadali nun. Kung iba naman relihiyon mo, e di magdasal ka sa ibang paraan. The non-catholics do not do the sign of the cross and as a sign of respect to that, the prayer leaders do not say “In the name of the father..” anymore. Dasal lang talaga. Kung may iba kang paraan o kung hindi ka naniniwala, MALAYA kang gawin ang gusto mo. May prayer time bilang pasintabi sa mga naniniwala na dapat simulan nila yung linggo nila ng isang dasal.

Ang problema kasi ang paradigm lang yung atheists eh. Since paniniwala ng atheists na hindi dapat magdasal, dapat wag na lang magdasal. Eh pano yung mga hindi atheists? Panu kung sila yung magreklamo sa napaka-atheistang eskuwelahan na hindi man lang sila binibigyan ng panahon para simulan yung linggo nila ng isang dasal?

Tapos yung issue nung teachers. So? Alam kong alam ng estudyante na yan, more than anything, na parang UP lang ang Pisay: may kalayaan. Kaya nga kahit yung orgs estudyante lang nagpapatakbo ng lahat eh. Kung talagang atheist siya, he would opt to tell the teacher na: “ma’am, I don’t believe in what you’re teaching. sori but can i leave?” ganun kasimple. sigurado naman ako (at kagagraduate ko palang sa eskuwelahan na iyan) na WALANG TEACHER sa pisay na namimilit na makisama ka sa isang relihiyon. Oo, vocal sila about their beliefs, but if you have yours, does that really matter? I mean, kaya nga itinuturo sa values education na “you should live in harmony with those who have different beliefs”, di ba? Kahit sabihin pa nating may “influence” na pwedeng mangyari, well, kung maiimpluwensiyahan ka, hindi talaga buo ang paniniwala mo bilang atheist na walang Diyos.

Ang malaking tanong ko lang sa nagsulat nito, why did you not include in your essay your “attempts” to tell your teachers that you do not believe in such? That would have made the essay more convincing. Maybe because the attempts did not exist?

I mean, you even want to be an “unknown” rather than tell the whole world that this is what you believe in. Kung gusto mo nga talagang bigyang puwang ka ng eskuwelahan sa mga paniniwala mo, e di ipahayag mo kung ano ang pinaniniwalaan mo at PANINDIGAN mo. Hindi yung magpapaka-unknown ka. Para mo kasing ipinapalabas na ikinakahiya mong maging atheist. Be proud that you are one if that’s what you believe.

Last, non-sectarian pa rin ang Pisay. Minsan kasi, nakakalimutan nating tingnan ang mga bagay sa isang mas malawak na perpektibo kaya nagiging kawawa tuloy ang mga inaakusahan natin.

yun lang.

ryan added these pithy words on Oct 01 07 at 3:52 pm

paula: aray, that’s fucked up.

That just underscores the need for Pisay to be a safe space to all kinds of creeds. I mean, on a personal level, atheists might be accepted by their equals, but obviously there’s some form of institutional discrimination that has no place in a non-sectarian school.

Ano nga ba ang mawawala sa mga Kristiyano kung walang dasal sa flag ceremony? E di dasal na lang kayo on your own.

micketymoc added these pithy words on Oct 02 07 at 10:40 am

To “micketymoc”:

Bakit, ano nga rin ba ang nawawala sa inyo kapag may dasal sa flag cem? I mean, kayo nga dapat yung hindi maapektuhan dahil hindi naman kayo naniniwala dun eh? eh di don’t pray. you guys can opt not to naman eh.

To Paula:

What I’m really very proud of about pisay is the fact that the teachers show you their grading sheets everytime you’d ask them why you’re grade turn out the way it did. Seriously.
There are many ways on how a teacher grades. Sa pisay, most of the time, objective yun. ikaw gagawa g grades mo. i’m sure you know that. pwera na lang yung mga recitation parts. tama si ate frances, maraming factors sa paggrade. malamang hindi dahil sa paniniwala mo kaya ganun yung grade niya sayo. or hindi lang dahil dun. tama si ate frances, kung feeling mo may discrimination nga talaga, write a letter to her or to the admin. address the problem. tapos baka maliwanagan ka pa ng lalo sa kung bakit ganun yung treatment niya sayo.

ryan added these pithy words on Oct 07 07 at 1:13 am

The reference to “imploring the aid of Almighty God” in the preamble of the Philippine Constitution should also be considered.

tikimusic added these pithy words on Oct 21 07 at 4:28 pm

But many aspects of secularism can be seen as religious, such as capitalism and the argument that human beings are inherently good (which is part of the law), and one can be indoctrinated into various beliefs like equating freedom with a free market system, maximization of profits, or the claim that science is “great,” when the truth is that science can be used for good and for bad (just like religion).

tikimusic added these pithy words on Dec 20 07 at 12:32 pm

‘…my God-given talents… the love of God, country…’
I still couldn’t believe I ended up commenting to this after looking for the school’s hymn score!

nicholo09 added these pithy words on Jan 27 08 at 9:50 pm